Vinícius Júnior: "If I'm alone against racism, the system will crush me"

“In 2019, at the Ballon d'Or ceremony (where he finished fourth in the Kopa Trophy), we saw a somewhat shy 19-year-old. Has he changed much?

Yes. A little in life and especially on the pitch. I had just arrived from Brazil, and from there to here, to Madrid, it's a huge leap. All young boys dream of it, but it's impressive. Here, I've met good people. I've grown. I'm a different player. I was a kid who knew nothing, with only 70 professional matches. Now I have over 200 (281 for the club, 23 for the national team as of October 9). But I'm still young, and we shouldn't forget that. I'm only 23 and I still have a great desire to learn.

Off the pitch, has your life changed a lot too?

I think I'm a bit more famous. (He bursts out laughing.) I don't do what I used to do when I was in Brazil, but I love my life. I've changed my family's life because of all this. I believe I'll be here for many more years. It was my dream, anyway. I get to play football every day! Nothing makes me happier. I'll never get tired of being on a pitch.

It must not have happened often, Vinicius without his ball...

I've never gone more than three days without playing football, whether on vacation or not. As a kid, if there was a place where people were playing, I was there. In the morning, I studied with the sole purpose of having time in the afternoon and evening to play. That was my childhood. At 8, I wanted to imitate Neymar. And my father let me go out into the street.

These weren't just any streets, these were the streets of São Gonçalo, near Rio de Janeiro...

It's a dangerous neighborhood, but people spend their time playing football. There are criminals, weapons everywhere. It's one of Rio's worst favelas. For the people there, all of this becomes normal, even if it isn't. But I had good friends, good people around me. I was able to follow the path I wanted, and I had a gift for football. Not everyone has that luck. Out of necessity, you take the wrong paths. There, you don't necessarily choose, and I never met anyone there who became a doctor, teacher, or lawyer. Let's hope that changes... I was happy there, though. I made lifelong friends. Those who live with me in Madrid all come from São Gonçalo. It's a big part of my story.

What do those streets mean to you?

That's where I learned everything. The street pitted me against players older than me. I was 9 and I was playing against those who were 12 or 13. I wasn't afraid to play with the ball and I've kept that in my game. And then the quality, the technique... It comes from there. It's not like a real pitch. It's tougher than at the Bernabéu, for sure. (Laughs.) Nobody calls fouls, the ball comes from one side and goes to the other... But exceptional players have come from there. That's what makes us Brazilians have something different when we dribble, when we control. It's street football, then futsal.

Which you discovered later. Apparently, your parents, because you were good at football, didn't pay for school.

It was mostly because they had nothing. I was 5 when my father decided to work outside our neighborhood, but it wasn't enough. They stopped living their dreams so I could live mine. You could say it paid off today, but others also lose all the money they have, and even what they don't. Thank God, my little brother won't have to live through that. The school let me play for free, they also provided me with sports clothes. Without those people, I wouldn't be here. Flamengo would never have spotted me. I don't know what I would have done, honestly. I only dreamed of football.

And you've never lost your attacking, dribbling, playing DNA...

I've always played my way and it will always be like that. I never stopped thinking that, no matter where I played, I could be the best. Whether I was in my neighborhood, elsewhere, or even against older players... When I didn't succeed, I'd go home a little sad. It consumed me. I wanted to win. Unfortunately, it didn't happen every day. (Laughs.) I like being a leader, feeling that I'm important, that I can carry the team. That's still the case. I wasn't afraid in my street, next to gangs. It's not going to start now!

Is giving up a foreign concept to you?

I never think about what will happen later. There's no stress, just joy. I have the personality to try things and the team gives me the confidence to do so too. I'll keep trying actions until they work. I never dwell on things. The second after a failure, it's already time to ask for the ball again. And trying a lot means succeeding a lot. Not everyone thinks like that, for sure, but I do, ever since I started. I had to bring that to Madrid.

Your role in the locker room must have evolved in recent years?

Obviously. I was a young boy when I signed, with no particular responsibilities. Now, it's up to me to lift us up, even if the number of great players means responsibilities are shared. Sometimes it's one person, sometimes another. But I know that the club, the team, the fans, always expect something from me. I'll never say I'm not aware of that. I fully embrace it. Pressure exists, but we all love it. It's a necessity when you're striving for greatness.

So you talk a lot?

No, no, no. (He insists with a smile.) I talk, but I know my place. If I need to speak, I speak, no problem, but there's Toni (Kroos), there's Luka (Modric)... They've been here a long time and it's more for me to listen to them. I have more to learn from them than the other way around. Those guys have won so much in their careers... We mostly try to follow in their footsteps.

So we won't see you scolding Toni Kroos?

Impossible! Neither him nor anyone else, for that matter: that's not me. I'm a calm guy. I've never had a dispute. Really, I'm never angry. It's also because we love spending time together. We organize dinners, we like to travel with each other... It's fantastic.

In Madrid, you've had extraordinary coaches. Let's start with "Zizou."

Ah, "Zizou"... Casemiro and Marcelo talked a lot about him, and very highly. He's a role model for everyone. I didn't see him play much, I was too young, but there's YouTube. He played like few others and, as a coach, he helped me enormously, especially with the ability to track back and defend. He insisted a lot on participating in the collective effort and gave me the freedom to express my qualities. In Brazil, I was never asked anything defensively, or barely. That changed me a lot. "Zizou" made me understand that the two things weren't incompatible. He taught me a lot. And then, I was the youngest! When others worked a little less, it was up to me to do it.

Then there's Carlo Ancelotti.

In a different style. It's like father and son. He talks to us about everything. Thanks to him, I've better handled moments I wasn't particularly ready for. He always pushes me and wants me to keep a cool head. Well, when he needs to "give me a telling off," he doesn't hold back either... In the moment, I think it's too much! Then I think about it again and it's never by chance. He always does it because it needs to be done. For some silly things I do on the pitch, for example. (Laughs.) A dribble in our own half, an individual action that shouldn't happen... But you have to listen to him. What he wants is to see the best of what I can give. He's like that with everyone. But, with us young players, it's true that he wants to teach, to help. He asks how things are at home, how we feel, how the family is... He knows we spend time away from home and he cares about it. All of this makes him a truly wonderful person.

What does the joy of being here in Madrid represent? The city? The club? A bit of everything?

I love life here in general, and it's going well for my family too. When my relatives walk around, they're recognized, and people only wish us well. Little by little, I've discovered this new life, new emotions, a fervor... Madrid is unique. All over the world, everyone talks to me about this club. And outside of football, I like it. I'm quite a homebody, but we do a lot of activities. For example, tomorrow night, after the Champions League match (the interview was conducted on September 19, the day before the match against Union Berlin, 1-0, which Vinicius, injured, did not play in), I'm organizing a dinner with "Cama" (Camavinga), Jude (Bellingham), Rodrygo, Aurélien (Tchouaméni) and others. There's no beach like in Rio, but it's still nice. (Laughs.) And I've brought a bit of Rio here, with the beach volleyball court (in his garden).

So Real will be your last club?

I think I could stay here my whole career, but my club for life is Flamengo. I promised my father I'd go back there one day. I have to keep that promise.

There's a special connection between all the young players on the team. Rodrygo explained, among other things, that his friends have become friends with your friends. Why is that so important?

Because if you're happy in life, you're happy on the pitch. We spend all our free time together. I believe that if "Cama" or "Rodry" give me assists, or vice versa, it's also because things are going so well off the pitch. We also have Jude, who just arrived, and Tchouaméni, who's been here for a year. I took "Cama" to Brazil this summer. He's one of us now. He plays like a Brazilian, dances like a Brazilian. He wants to come back! Rodrygo and I have known each other for years; we played against each other when we were 11. Same for "Mili" (Eder Militao), whom I've known since I was very young. We're just a group of guys the same age who want to achieve great things. I spend more time with them than with my family! And besides, we don't have girlfriends or children. (Laughs.) It's easier to organize dinners.

Brazilian or French dinner, then?

Ah, a bit of both! Here, it's more of a good mineirinho (a Brazilian chicken dish). And "Cama" has to invite me to France. Injured, I couldn't go. They were all in Cannes. They can count on my presence next time.

What's the most Brazilian thing about you?

I've kept my joy for life. You have to know how to be happy. We had very little in Brazil and we were still happy. I have almost everything I want now. You have to be aware of that. And give thanks to God. I'm incredibly lucky to be surrounded by people who truly love me. Here, three friends, my mom, and my little brother live. I need to have those who love me by my side.

Is it true that there's a rule that when you're home, no one is allowed to go out and party?

We always want to be together, above all! It's better to organize something here, even if it's quiet, than to spend the night out in Madrid. I prefer us to have dinner at home, together, and sometimes with the team players. We talk more. As a result, we win more.

Now let's play a guessing game. Who's the craziest?

Ahhh, football has changed! Players aren't as crazy as they used to be. We each have our little quirks. But we're not bored.

Who chooses the best music?

"Cama." He makes good choices. Since Karim (Benzema) left, "Cama" and I handle that in the locker room.

Who dresses the best?

Hmm. Several. "Cama." Jude. Aurélien. "Rodry"... The team has a lot of style.

And the best player?

Before, Karim 100%. And even if he's left, I'm sticking with Karim. (Laughs.) That'll save me from making anyone jealous.

We don't need to ask who smiles the most. Eduardo Camavinga says it's you.

Always. It's good for me. And good for others.

There's a player who just arrived, Jude Bellingham, whom you mention a lot already.

It's as if he's part of the family. We're really happy he signed. I'd been messaging him for months! I was saying: "This is the best team in the world." I knew other teams wanted him. Juni (Calafat, Real Madrid's recruitment strongman) has become a friend and he knows that if I can lend a hand, I will. I did the same with "Cama." I messaged him, he came, and he won the Champions League. Let's hope it's the same for Jude. I didn't know him personally but I really wanted him to join us. I saw him play, and since I want to play with the best, it was obvious. Jude is one of the best in the world and the whole team loves him. He scores goals, he's happy. He chose the best club.

And you do the same with Kylian Mbappé?

No, it's different! Kylian has his own situation. Jude, I knew he could move this summer. And it's perfect that it happened that way. But here, everyone wants to play with Kylian. I hope it happens one day. He's one of the best players, perhaps the best of all today. He's on a... different level!

Is it this atmosphere within the club that allowed you to overcome the more complicated moments?

Before, there were Marcelo and Casemiro, experienced players who helped me. It was normal, at my age, to have moments that were less easy than others. I've always worked extremely hard. At 21, I finally exploded. I felt ready for it: mentally, to keep a cool head, and physically, to keep going. I was ready for the big moments. Even when I wasn't scoring, I remained calm. I just had to go back to training and do a little more. The daily level is incredible, the best are here, we train to keep up. But it never bothered me too much. I knew it would come. I talked a lot with others, too, especially Karim. He won the Ballon d'Or in his last year here, after fifteen seasons (fourteen actually). Imagine the time spent working.

Benzema was like an older brother?

He taught me a lot, on and off the pitch, and always told me the truth. He pushed me to be more focused on scoring. I had to score. He, when he didn't score, he complained. He's one of the greatest players in history and he told me: "If you can score 30 goals, you must score 30 goals, don't settle for 29." That finally sank into my head.

Because you didn't have that in you?

Yes, yes, I've always loved scoring, but it wasn't ingrained in my mind. I never set a goal for a season. I never told myself: "I have to score 30." Now, I do. I want to score more each season. I know I scored 23 goals last season (plus two for the national team). So, there's the goal: more than 23.

Among the difficult moments were the racist chants you experienced, notably in Valencia in La Liga last season (May 21)...

It happened many times, and in Valencia in a blatant and significant way. I felt a lot of sadness. If I'm on the pitch, it's to make people happy. And a group, which I know is a minority, can affect you to the point where you no longer think about playing. I've learned a lot about racism. Every day, I learn more. It's a truly complex issue. In the past, people suffered slavery. I'm interested in it. I truly hope these incidents won't happen again. Not just with me, but with all players, everyone... And especially children. They're not ready for these kinds of moments (since then, an 8-year-old girl wearing a Vinicius jersey was subjected to racist insults and threats during Atlético-Real, 3-1, on September 24). For me, since I was 19, I've been interested in the topic of racism. I understand a little more how I should react. I'm happy that things are evolving. Laws will change and, in stadiums, I believe it will happen less and less because of that. Among ourselves, we talk about it. Many players discuss it with me. Varane, Kylian (Mbappé), Hakimi, Lukaku... We must take action together so that these kinds of events happen less often.

Why was it important to learn about this?

Because I'm very young, and I haven't experienced what others in the past have. I've never been denied access to a restroom because I'm Black. I've never been asked to use the service entrance of a restaurant because I'm Black. But it was important for me to know that it happened to others. I didn't experience it, neither did my father, but my grandfather, my great-grandfather, did. They endured those sad moments in history and I needed to know. Today, I know more about it than my parents. I still know little, despite everything. I've connected with people who have truly studied racism, with people whose families have gone through serious periods, with people who know a lot about slavery. I also read a lot. And I want to continue to have an influence. My voice carries weight. I can help. It doesn't just concern football or only Black people. If you're insulted in a way that hurts you, you have to fight against it. Until things change.

You said: "La Liga is owned by racists." Why?

Because what happened in Valencia was on matchday 35, but throughout all the away matches played before that, there were incidents of racism. They never did anything. I had already spoken with La Liga to say that this needed to change. They didn't listen to me. They started listening when the whole world change. They didn't listen to me. They started listening when the whole world started talking about Spain. That's what made them react. Personally, I know I won't change history, that I won't make Spain a country without racists, or the whole world. But I know I can change some things. So that those who come in the next few years don't experience this, so that children can be at peace in the future. For them, I will do everything I can.

Did you feel support from institutions?

Everyone sends you messages when something happens, but as soon as it's over, they stop talking to you. But I did have support! From the club, of course, and also from players, especially those who have already experienced these things. That's how it will change: if players are united. When I went through that, I received a lot of support, which is a good thing. We must continue to fight, above all. For a long time still... (He corrects himself.) Forever! It's not going to stop right away, and I won't stop fighting.

Raising your voice even more, is that the challenge?

Of course, and all in unison. If I'm alone against racism, the system will easily crush me. When we are all together, when important people take up the subject, like the President of Brazil (Lula, a historical figure of the Brazilian left), like the President of UEFA, like Kylian (Mbappé), like Neymar, great players, like Rio Ferdinand, who always writes to me and is with me in this fight, it necessarily carries more weight.

There's a lot of talk about leaving the field. Do you think that's a good solution?

I mainly think that we players are already doing a lot, and it's up to the Leagues to do their job. In Valencia, an entire group in a stadium insults a player and the next match, they can play normally? With their fans, without losing points, without sanctions? Change will come through that. I believe we need to take action so that racists are afraid to say things that, already, can hurt me, but also affect their own lives. People need to understand.

So, should fear change sides?

Deep down, I don't even want to pass my fear on to others. I just want to be able to play peacefully and know that I won't be insulted on a pitch because I'm Black. If a spectator insults me because I scored, that's fine. They can insult me without disrespecting me. They can boo me the whole game. I don't care. When it comes to racism, it's different. Taunts, whistles, that's part of the game. Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Benzema, Neymar... They've all experienced it. Fans of other teams provoke them and that's normal. And besides, I like it, it motivates me to score against them. But on racism... I don't believe in a world without racists, but they must become a minority. Future generations will no longer be able to think that it's normal to be one. Children, today, see their parents act that way and think: "If he does it, it must be normal." I want a world where a father teaches his son that being racist is wrong. Over generations, we will free ourselves. We won't end racism, but we will make it a minority.

Three years ago, Raheem Sterling told L'Équipe Magazine that he discovered racism through football, having never been a victim before. Is it the same for you?

These are two different things. On the pitch, people shout it and you hear it. In the street, you face a different kind of racism. If I enter a shop and someone watches me because of my skin color, that's racism. If someone applies for a job and, between a white person and a black person, the choice is made based on skin color, and not because one or the other is better, that's racism. Personally, in Brazil, I haven't experienced it much, because football made me famous a long time ago. At 9-10 years old, I was already recognized. I wasn't watched in a store, for example. I mainly experienced it on football pitches. Even in my home country. We've been talking about it for a long time, some can even go to prison, so there's less of it than in Spain I think, but there's a lot. I've suffered quite a bit from it.

Is this the fight of your career?

It's something I want to keep fighting for, anyway. I want my little brother not to experience what I've experienced. For my cousin not to experience it. For my loved ones not to experience it. For no one to go through those moments. It's so sad. And I want one day not to have to talk about this for thirty minutes in an interview. That will mean it has changed, and we'll only talk about happy things!

And what would make you happy then?

To have a story similar to those written by the legends of Real Madrid. I've already won everything I could, but I want more. And then the World Cup with Brazil. We haven't won it in a long time and this country needs it, even if it's always very complicated. The new generation is very talented, but so are those of Spain, Argentina, France, or England.

And a Ballon d'Or?

Let's hope so, but the team comes first. Like Karim. He gave all his assists to Cristiano and it was always Cristiano who won the trophy. He ended up winning it at the end. I always talk about the importance of my teammates. If I score 60 goals in a season but we don't win, it's useless. How can I win a Ballon d'Or if my team hasn't won anything in the end? I think we all work together. And then, one day, like for Modric, like for Karim, one of us is crowned. It's a dream."