At the 2019 Ballon d'Or ceremony, we met a slightly shy 19-year-old. Have you changed much since then?

Yes. A bit in life and, above all, on the pitch. I’d just arrived from Brazil and the move to Madrid is a huge leap. It’s every young person’s dream, but it’s overwhelming. Here I’ve met good people and grown. I’m a different player. I was a lad who knew nothing, with just 70 games as a professional. Now I’ve played over 200 (281 for the club and 23 for the national team, as of 9 October). But I’m still young; we mustn’t forget that. I’m only 23 and I’m still eager to learn.

Off the pitch, has your life changed much too?

I think I’ve become a bit more famous. (Bursts out laughing) I don’t do what I used to do in Brazil anymore, but I love my life. I’ve managed to change my family’s life thanks to all this. I believe I’m here to stay for many years. In any case, it was my dream. I can play football every day! Nothing makes me happier. I’ll never tire of being on the pitch.

It’s hard to imagine a moment when Vinícius isn’t with the ball at his feet...

I’ve never gone three days without playing football, not even when I was on holiday. When I was little, if there was a place where I could play, I was there. In the mornings I studied with the sole aim of having the afternoons and evenings free to play. That’s how my childhood was. At the age of 8, I wanted to imitate Neymar. And my dad let me go out onto the street.

But these weren’t just any streets, but those of São Gonçalo, near Rio de Janeiro...

It’s a dangerous neighbourhood, but people spend their time playing football. There are criminals and guns everywhere. It’s one of the worst favelas in Rio. For those who live there, everything ends up seeming normal, even though it isn’t. But I had the right friends, the right people around me. I was able to follow the path I wanted and had a gift for football. Not everyone is that lucky. Out of necessity, many end up going down the wrong path. There, you don’t always get a choice, and I’ve never met anyone from there who’s become a doctor, a teacher or a lawyer. We hope that changes... Anyway, I was happy there. I made friends for life. The ones living with me in Madrid are all from São Gonçalo. It’s a big part of my story.

“I wasn’t afraid on my street, alongside the gangs. It’s not as if I’m going to start being afraid now!”

What do those streets mean to you?

That’s where I learnt everything. The street put me up against older players. I was nine and playing against lads aged twelve or thirteen. I wasn’t afraid to play with the ball and I’ve kept that in my style. And that’s where all the quality comes from, all the technique… It’s not like a proper pitch. It’s harder than at the Bernabéu, that’s for sure. (Laughs) Nobody calls a foul, the ball goes back and forth... But exceptional players came out of there. That’s what makes us Brazilians have something different in our dribbling, in our ball control. It’s street football, and then futsal. I wasn’t afraid on my street, alongside the gangs. It’s not as if I’m going to start being afraid now!

It was more because they had nothing. I was five when my dad decided to work outside our neighbourhood, but even that wasn’t enough. They gave up their dreams so that I could live mine. Today we can say it was worth it, but it also happens that other people lose all the money they have, and even what they don’t have. Thank God, my younger brother won’t have to go through that. The school let me play for free and also gave me the sports kit. Without those people, I wouldn’t be here. Flamengo would never have discovered me. Honestly, I don’t know what I would have done. I just dreamed of football.

And you’ve never lost that attacking instinct, that ability to dribble.

I’ve always played my own way and it’ll always be like that. I never stopped thinking that, wherever I played, I could be the best. In my neighbourhood, elsewhere or against older players... When I couldn’t do it, I’d go home feeling a bit down. It consumed me. I wanted to win. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen every day. (Laughs) I like being a leader, feeling that I’m important, that I can carry the team. It’s still like that.

Does giving up make no sense to you?

I never think about what’s going to happen next. There’s no stress, just joy. I’ve got the right personality to take risks and the team gives me the confidence to do so. I’ll keep trying until it works out. I never dwell on mistakes. The second after a mistake, I’m already asking for the ball again. And trying hard also means achieving a lot. I know not everyone thinks like that, but I’ve been like this since I started. I had to bring that mindset to Madrid.

“The pressure is there, but we all like it. It’s a necessity when you’re striving for greatness.”

Your role in the dressing room must also have evolved in recent years.

Of course. When I signed, I was a youngster without much responsibility. Now I’m the one who has to lead the team, although the number of great players means the responsibilities are shared. Sometimes it’s one, sometimes it’s another. But I know the club, the team and the fans always expect something from me. I’ll never say I don’t know that. I fully accept it. The pressure is there, but we all like it. It’s a necessity when you’re striving for greatness.

So do you speak up a lot in the dressing room?

No, no, no. (He insists, smiling) I do speak up, but I know my place. If I need to speak up, I do, no problem. But there’s Toni [Kroos], there’s Luka [Modrić]... They’ve been here a long time and I’ve got to listen. I’ve got more to learn from them than the other way round. These lads have won so much in their careers... Above all, we try to follow in their footsteps.

So we won’t see you telling Toni Kroos off?

Impossible! Not him, not anyone. It’s not in my nature. I’m a laid-back bloke. I’ve never had a problem with anyone. Seriously, I never get worked up. Also because we love spending time together. We organise dinners, we like travelling together... It’s brilliant.

In Madrid you’ve had some incredible managers. Let’s start with ‘Zizou’.

Ah, ‘Zizou’... Casemiro and Marcelo spoke very highly of him. He’s a role model for everyone. I didn’t see him play much because I was too young, but there’s always YouTube. He played like few others, and as a coach, he helped me a lot, especially with my ability to recover and defend. He really emphasised the importance of contributing to the collective effort, whilst at the same time giving me the freedom to express my own qualities. In Brazil, I was hardly ever asked to do anything defensively. That changed a lot for me. ‘Zizou’ made me realise that the two things aren’t incompatible. He taught me a lot. And, besides, I was the youngest! When some of the others worked a bit less, it was up to me to work harder.

Then came Carlo Ancelotti, with a different style.

It’s like a father-son relationship. He talks to us about everything. Thanks to him, I’ve been able to cope better with moments I wasn’t prepared for. He’s always encouraging me and wants me to keep a cool head. Of course, when he needs to tell me off, he doesn’t hesitate either... At the time, I think it’s too much! But afterwards I reflect and realise it’s never by chance. He does it because it’s necessary. For some silly mistakes I make on the pitch, for example. (Laughs) A dribble in our own box, an unnecessary individual move... But you have to listen to him. What he wants is to see the best I can give. He’s like that with everyone. But with us, the younger lads, it’s true that he wants to teach us, to help us. He asks how things are at home, how we’re feeling, how the family is... He knows we spend a lot of time away from home and he worries about that. All of this makes him a truly fantastic person.

“The club of my life is Flamengo. I promised my father that one day I’d return. I have to keep that promise.”

What do you enjoy about being here in Madrid? The city? The club? A bit of everything?

I love life here in general, and my family feels at home too. When my family go out for a walk, they’re recognised and people only wish us well. Little by little I’ve been discovering this new life, new emotions, a passion… Madrid is unique. All over the world, everyone talks about this club. And outside of football, I also enjoy life here. I’m quite a homebody, but we get up to plenty of things.

In an interview on 19 September, the eve of the Champions League match against Union Berlin (a 1-0 win, a match Vinícius missed due to injury), the Brazilian forward shared details of his life in Madrid and his strong bond with his teammates.

For example, tomorrow night, after the match, I’m organising a dinner with ‘Cama’ (Camavinga), Jude [Bellingham], Rodrygo, Aurélien [Tchouaméni] and others. There’s no beach like in Rio, but it’s still good. (Laughs) And I’ve brought a bit of Rio here, with the beach volleyball court I have in the garden.

Will Real Madrid be your last club?

I think I could stay here for my entire career, but the club of my life is Flamengo. I promised my father that one day I’d return. I have to keep that promise.

There’s a special bond between all the young players in the team. Rodrygo told us, among other things, that his friends have become close to your friends. Why is that so important?

If we’re doing well in life, we’re doing well on the pitch. We spend almost all our free time together. I think that if ‘Cama’ or ‘Rodry’ give me assists, or vice versa, it’s also because we get on really well off the pitch. There’s also Jude, who’s just arrived, and Tchouaméni, who’s been here for a year. I took ‘Cama’ to Brazil this summer. Now he’s one of us. He plays like a Brazilian, dances like a Brazilian. He wants to come back! I’ve known Rodrygo for years; we used to play against each other when we were 11. Same with ‘Mili’ (Éder Militão), who I’ve known since he was very young. We’re just a bunch of lads of the same age who want to achieve great things. I spend more time with them than with my family! And besides, we don’t have girlfriends or kids. (Laughs) It makes organising dinners easier.

Brazilian or French dinners?

Ah, a bit of both! Here it’s usually a nice ‘mineirinho’ (Brazilian dish with chicken). And ‘Cama’ has to invite me to France. As I was injured, I couldn’t go. They all went to Cannes. Next time you can count on me.

"After Karim left, ‘Cama’ and I were in charge of the music in the changing room."

What is the most Brazilian thing about you?

I’ve kept my zest for life. You have to know how to be happy. In Brazil we had very little, and yet we were happy. Now I have almost everything I want. You have to be aware of that. And thank God. I’m very lucky to be surrounded by people who really care about me. Three friends live here, along with my mum and my younger brother. I need to have those who love me by my side.

Is it true there’s a rule that, when they’re at your house, nobody’s allowed to go out to parties?

We want to be together all the time, above all else! It’s better to organise something here, even if it’s low-key, than to spend the night in Madrid. I’d rather we have a dinner at home, together, and sometimes with other players from the team. We chat more. And that way we gain more.

Who’s the craziest?

Ahhh, football has changed! Players aren’t as crazy as they used to be. Everyone has their own quirks. But we never get bored.

Who picks the best music?

‘Cama’. He makes good choices. After Karim left, ‘Cama’ and I took charge of the music in the changing room.

Who dresses best?

Hmm. Several. ‘Cama’. Jude. Aurélien. ‘Rodry’… The team’s got a lot of style.

And the best player?

It used to be Karim, for sure. And even though he’s left, I still say it’s Karim. (Laughs) That way I avoid causing jealousy.

Who smiles the most?

Me, always. It does me good. And it does the others good.

There’s a player who’s just arrived, Jude Bellingham, whom you’ve mentioned several times. It’s as if he’s already part of the family.

We’re really happy he’s signed. I spent months messaging him! I’d say: ‘This is the best team in the world’. I knew other clubs wanted him. Juni [Calafat] (Real Madrid’s head of recruitment) has become a friend and knows that, if I can help a bit, I will. I did the same with ‘Cama’. I sent him messages, he came and won the Champions League. We hope the same happens with Jude. I didn’t know him personally, but I really wanted him to come. I watched him play and, as I want to develop alongside the best, it was obvious. Jude is one of the best in the world and the whole team likes him. He scores goals, he’s happy. He chose the best club.

“Everyone here wants to play with Kylian [Mbappé]. I hope that happens one day. He’s one of the best players, perhaps the best of all.”

And are you doing the same with Kylian Mbappé?

No, it’s different! Kylian has his own situation. With Jude, I knew he could move that summer. And it was perfect that it happened that way. But here, everyone wants to play with Kylian. I hope it happens one day. He’s one of the best players, perhaps even the best around at the moment. He’s on a whole other level!

Was it that atmosphere within the club that helped you get through the toughest times?

Before, there were Marcelo and Casemiro, very experienced players who helped me. It was normal, at my age, to have moments that weren’t so easy. I’ve always worked hard. At 21, I really came into my own. I felt I was ready for it: mentally, to keep a cool head, and physically, to cope with the run of matches. I was ready for the big moments. Even when I wasn’t scoring, I stayed calm. It was just a matter of getting back to training and pushing myself a bit harder.

Benzema was like an older brother to me. He taught me a lot, on and off the pitch, and always told me the truth. He pushed me to think more about scoring. I needed to score. When he didn’t score, he’d get annoyed. He’s one of the greatest players in history and he’d say to me: ‘If you can score 30 goals, you have to score 30; don’t settle for 29.’ That really stuck in my mind.

Wasn’t that mindset something that came naturally to you at the start?

I’ve always enjoyed scoring, but it wasn’t ingrained in my thinking. I never set a target for a season. I never thought: ‘I have to score 30’. Now I do. I want to score more every season. I know I scored 23 goals last season (plus two for the national team). So there’s the target: more than 23.

"I know I’m not going to change history, that I’m not going to be able to make Spain a country without racists..."

Among the most difficult moments were the racist chants you endured, especially in Valencia during last season’s La Liga (21 May)…

It happened many times, and in Valencia in a very clear and striking way. I felt enormous sadness. If I’m on the pitch, it’s to make people happy. And a group, which I know is a minority, can affect you to the point where you can no longer think about playing. I’ve learnt a lot about racism. It’s a really complex issue. In the past, there were people who suffered under slavery. I’m interested in that. I sincerely hope that such incidents never happen again. Not just for me, but for all the players, for everyone… and especially for the children. They aren’t ready for these kinds of moments (since then, an 8-year-old girl wearing a Vinícius shirt was subjected to abuse and racist threats during the Atlético-Real Madrid match, which ended 3–1, on 24 September). Personally, I’ve been interested in the issue of racism since I was 19. I understand a bit better how I should react. I’m glad things are changing. The laws will change, and I believe this will happen less and less in stadiums because of that. We talk about it amongst ourselves. Many players discuss the issue with me: [Raphaël] Varane, Kylian [Mbappé], [Achraf] Hakimi, [Romelu] Lukaku… We all need to act together so that these kinds of incidents happen less and less.

"My voice carries weight. I can help. This isn’t just about football or just about Black people. If someone insults you in a way that hurts you, you need to react. Until things change."

Why was it so important for you to learn about this?

Because I’m very young and haven’t experienced what others went through in the past. I’ve never been denied access to a toilet because I’m Black. I’ve never been asked to use the back entrance of a restaurant because I’m Black. But it was important for me to know that this happened to other people. I didn’t experience it, nor did my father, but my grandfather and great-grandfather did. They lived through those sad moments in history, and I needed to know that. Today I know more than my parents did. Even so, I know very little. I’ve connected with people who have really studied racism, people whose families went through difficult times, people who know a lot about slavery. I also read a lot. And I want to continue to make a difference. My voice carries weight. I can help. This isn’t just about football or just about Black people. If someone insults you in a way that hurts you, you need to react. Until things change.

You said that ‘La Liga belongs to racists’. Why did you say that?

What happened in Valencia was in the 35th round, but there had already been racism in every away game before that. They never did anything. I’d already spoken to La Liga, told them this needed to change, but they wouldn’t listen to me. They only started listening when the whole world began talking about Spain. That’s what made them react. I know I’m not going to change history, nor turn Spain into a country without racists, nor the whole world. But I know I can change some things. So that those who come after me don’t have to go through this. So that children can feel safe in the future.

Did you feel any support from organisations like UEFA or FIFA?

Everyone sends you messages when something happens, but as soon as it’s over, they stop talking to you. But I did have support! From the club, of course, and also from the players, especially those who’ve been through similar things. That’s how things will change: if the players stick together. When I went through this, I received a lot of support, and that’s good. We have to keep fighting, and for a long time… (He corrects himself.) Forever! This isn’t going to stop any time soon, and I’m not going to stop fighting either.

Is the challenge for us to speak out even more?

Absolutely, and we all need to stand together. If I stand alone against racism, the system will crush me easily. But when we’re all united, when important people take up the cause, like the President of Brazil (Lula), like the UEFA President, like Kylian [Mbappé], like Neymar, great players, and even Rio Ferdinand, who always writes to me and stands with me in this fight, it ends up carrying much more weight.

There’s a lot of talk about walking off the pitch. Do you think that’s a good solution?

I think, above all, that we players already do a lot, and it’s up to the leagues to do their bit. In Valencia, a whole stadium insults a player, and in the next match they can play as normal? With their own fans, without losing points, without any punishment? Change needs to come from that side. I believe we need to act so that racists are afraid to say things that might affect me, but also harm their own lives. People need to understand that.

“I don’t believe in a world without racists, but they need to become a minority. Future generations mustn’t think this is normal.”

The fear has to switch sides, doesn’t it?

Deep down, I don’t even want to pass my fear on to others. I just want to be able to play in peace and know that I won’t be insulted on the pitch for being black. If a fan swears at me because I scored a goal, that’s fine. They can swear at me without being disrespectful. They can boo me the whole game, I don’t mind. But when it comes to racism, that’s a different story. The taunts, the boos, that’s all part of the game. [Lionel] Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, [Karim] Benzema, Neymar… they’ve all been through it. Fans of other teams taunt you, and that’s normal. And, besides, I like it; it motivates me to score against them. But when it comes to racism… I don’t believe in a world without racists, but they have to become a minority. Future generations must not be allowed to think it’s normal to be racist. Today, children see their parents behaving like that and think: ‘If he does it, then it’s normal.’ I want a world where a father teaches his son that being racist is wrong. Over time, across generations, we’ll free ourselves. We won’t eradicate racism, but we’ll make it a minority.

Three years ago, Raheem Sterling told L’Équipe magazine that he discovered racism through football, having never been a victim of it before. Is it the same for you?

They’re two different things. On the pitch, people shout and you hear it. On the street, you face a different kind of racism. If I go into a shop and someone stares at me because of the colour of my skin, that’s racism. If someone applies for a job and, between a white person and a black person, the decision is made because of skin colour, and not because one is better than the other, that’s racism too. Personally, in Brazil, I didn’t experience that much of it, because football made me famous from an early age. When I was 9 or 10, I was already well-known. People didn’t stare at me in a shop, for example. I felt it more on the football pitches, even in my own country. We’ve been talking about this for a long time; some people might even go to prison, so I think there are fewer cases than in Spain, but there are still plenty. I’ve suffered a lot from it myself.

Is this the fight of your career?

It’s something I want to keep fighting for, that’s for sure. I don’t want my younger brother to go through what I went through. I don’t want my cousin to go through it. I don’t want my family to go through it. I don’t want anyone to have to live through those moments. It’s so sad. And I want to be able, one day, to talk about it for thirty minutes in an interview. That will mean things have changed, and we’ll only be talking about happy things!

And what would make you happy?

A story similar to the one the Real Madrid legends wrote. I’ve already won everything I could, but I still want more. And then the World Cup with Brazil. It’s been a long time since we won, and the country needs it, even if it’s always very difficult. The new generation is very talented, but so are those from Spain, Argentina, France and England.

And a Ballon d’Or?

I hope so, but the team comes first. Like Karim. He provided all the assists for Cristiano, and it was always Cristiano who took the trophy. In the end, he ended up winning it. I always talk about the importance of my teammates. If I score 60 goals in a season but we don’t win anything, it’s no use. How am I going to win a Ballon d’Or if my team hasn’t won anything in the end? I think we all work together. And then, one day, as happened with Modrić, as with Karim, one of us is crowned. It’s a dream.